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	<title>Comments on: The hole in the system</title>
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	<link>http://www.fluentself.com/blog/stuff/the-hole-in-the-system/</link>
	<description>When you need some destuckification.</description>
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		<title>By: Julianna</title>
		<link>http://www.fluentself.com/blog/stuff/the-hole-in-the-system/comment-page-1/#comment-3456</link>
		<dc:creator>Julianna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fluentself.com/?p=2523#comment-3456</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s that commitment thing, like committing to your systems that opens your mind to not having to mull things over. Like getting married. You take away the whole probability part of do I or don&#039;t I. You do, you open your brain up to other questions. 

If systems could be mean, they&#039;d say, &quot;I told you so&quot; when we hit the holes. 

And lastly, I like what Bob has to say about infinity and finite systems. There needs to be flexibility and slack on the hard and the soft stuff too.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Juliannas last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://lunchladytomba.blogspot.com/2009/03/getting-caught-up-on-rss-feeds-in-my.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Show Up&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s that commitment thing, like committing to your systems that opens your mind to not having to mull things over. Like getting married. You take away the whole probability part of do I or don&#8217;t I. You do, you open your brain up to other questions. </p>
<p>If systems could be mean, they&#8217;d say, &#8220;I told you so&#8221; when we hit the holes. </p>
<p>And lastly, I like what Bob has to say about infinity and finite systems. There needs to be flexibility and slack on the hard and the soft stuff too.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Juliannas last blog post..<a href="http://lunchladytomba.blogspot.com/2009/03/getting-caught-up-on-rss-feeds-in-my.html" rel="nofollow">Show Up</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Nathalie Lussier</title>
		<link>http://www.fluentself.com/blog/stuff/the-hole-in-the-system/comment-page-1/#comment-3455</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathalie Lussier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fluentself.com/?p=2523#comment-3455</guid>
		<description>Kudos to you on the no sugar. When I read your other post I imaged raw sugars (from fruits, etc) were fine, and along with that cam my assumption of agave or honey. 

Wow, seriously how does it feel not to eat any sugar? What about carrot juice? That&#039;s super sugary, and it hits like a brick - especially if you&#039;re not used to it. 

Inquiring minds want to know! :)

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BillionaireWomancom/~3/ihc_NSXNQJ0/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Making Excuses and Taking The Payoff&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos to you on the no sugar. When I read your other post I imaged raw sugars (from fruits, etc) were fine, and along with that cam my assumption of agave or honey. </p>
<p>Wow, seriously how does it feel not to eat any sugar? What about carrot juice? That&#8217;s super sugary, and it hits like a brick &#8211; especially if you&#8217;re not used to it. </p>
<p>Inquiring minds want to know! :)</p>
<p><abbr><em>Nathalie Lussiers last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BillionaireWomancom/~3/ihc_NSXNQJ0/" rel="nofollow">Making Excuses and Taking The Payoff</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Firke</title>
		<link>http://www.fluentself.com/blog/stuff/the-hole-in-the-system/comment-page-1/#comment-3454</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Firke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fluentself.com/?p=2523#comment-3454</guid>
		<description>I love the compassionate way you&#039;ve described each of these situations.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Lisa Firkes last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/LisaFirkeWildKeys/~3/ELAtwxGFTnA/tag-im-it&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tag! I&#039;m it.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the compassionate way you&#8217;ve described each of these situations.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Lisa Firkes last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/LisaFirkeWildKeys/~3/ELAtwxGFTnA/tag-im-it" rel="nofollow">Tag! I&#8217;m it.</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Terry Heath</title>
		<link>http://www.fluentself.com/blog/stuff/the-hole-in-the-system/comment-page-1/#comment-3452</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Heath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fluentself.com/?p=2523#comment-3452</guid>
		<description>Hi Havi,

I worked for 5 years in a classroom for kids with emotional and behavior disorders (yes, there is disorder for everything, I know). Anyway, it was in a high school but was self-contained, which meant the kids didn&#039;t go to other classes until they had achieved the third of five levels. This classroom and everything that went on in it was all based on a system. You do X and Y follows every time. You do Y and you know you will be able to Z.

Some kids who had never experienced success before, did for the first time. Others of course couldn&#039;t go with it, at least right then, but even some of those eventually did and had success.

When someone thought something wasn&#039;t fair, it wasn&#039;t me or the other teachers, it was the system. That&#039;s just how the program works, sorry. It wasn&#039;t personal, and that way it didn&#039;t become a personal issue with the kids; they just dealt with it.

Systems can do that for us, make it so we don&#039;t have to take things personal. There is great freedom in that and it allows us to relax and focus on what we bring to the table as an individual. It&#039;s ironic, but the rules and regs can give us incredible freedom when we let them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Havi,</p>
<p>I worked for 5 years in a classroom for kids with emotional and behavior disorders (yes, there is disorder for everything, I know). Anyway, it was in a high school but was self-contained, which meant the kids didn&#8217;t go to other classes until they had achieved the third of five levels. This classroom and everything that went on in it was all based on a system. You do X and Y follows every time. You do Y and you know you will be able to Z.</p>
<p>Some kids who had never experienced success before, did for the first time. Others of course couldn&#8217;t go with it, at least right then, but even some of those eventually did and had success.</p>
<p>When someone thought something wasn&#8217;t fair, it wasn&#8217;t me or the other teachers, it was the system. That&#8217;s just how the program works, sorry. It wasn&#8217;t personal, and that way it didn&#8217;t become a personal issue with the kids; they just dealt with it.</p>
<p>Systems can do that for us, make it so we don&#8217;t have to take things personal. There is great freedom in that and it allows us to relax and focus on what we bring to the table as an individual. It&#8217;s ironic, but the rules and regs can give us incredible freedom when we let them.</p>
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		<title>By: Havi Brooks</title>
		<link>http://www.fluentself.com/blog/stuff/the-hole-in-the-system/comment-page-1/#comment-3451</link>
		<dc:creator>Havi Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fluentself.com/?p=2523#comment-3451</guid>
		<description>&lt;img src=&quot;http://fluentself.com/images/blog/ducks/Selma_tinyB.png&quot;&gt;  Systems, systems, systems!

@Bob -- excrement happens! Yes, allow for flexing. That&#039;s lovely. I&#039;m so not done thinking about what all this stuff means. :-)

@Fi -- yeah, I think it makes so much sense that we know and still don&#039;t do. That exact point where the thing we know we want and need still isn&#039;t happening tends to be the most interesting part, even if it is also the most stuck! It&#039;s totally frustrating and at the same time I&#039;m fascinated by it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://fluentself.com/images/blog/ducks/Selma_tinyB.png"/>  Systems, systems, systems!</p>
<p>@Bob &#8212; excrement happens! Yes, allow for flexing. That&#8217;s lovely. I&#8217;m so not done thinking about what all this stuff means. :-)</p>
<p>@Fi &#8212; yeah, I think it makes so much sense that we know and still don&#8217;t do. That exact point where the thing we know we want and need still isn&#8217;t happening tends to be the most interesting part, even if it is also the most stuck! It&#8217;s totally frustrating and at the same time I&#8217;m fascinated by it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Hays</title>
		<link>http://www.fluentself.com/blog/stuff/the-hole-in-the-system/comment-page-1/#comment-3447</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Hays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fluentself.com/?p=2523#comment-3447</guid>
		<description>Its at times like these that I try to remember Godel&#039;s theorem, which I keep on my whiteboard:

Any finite system of rules for an infinite system will be incomplete, inconsistent, or both.

Therefore, systems and processes and automation can only take you so far.  Eventually, you have to trust in the good people around you to make helpful or even wise decisions, and live with the times those decisions aren&#039;t (I normally say, &quot;Excrement happens&quot; at such times, which can solicit a smile even in times of stress).

Its nice when systems are designed to fail - I&#039;ve done this typically by making sure the people running the system know cold the reasons for the system and the range of freedom available within it.  And by not over-designing the system up front - allow for flexing.

Anyway, just some more thoughts for what they&#039;re worth - I agree with you, I think this is an important and fertile area for more thought.

Have fun! - Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its at times like these that I try to remember Godel&#8217;s theorem, which I keep on my whiteboard:</p>
<p>Any finite system of rules for an infinite system will be incomplete, inconsistent, or both.</p>
<p>Therefore, systems and processes and automation can only take you so far.  Eventually, you have to trust in the good people around you to make helpful or even wise decisions, and live with the times those decisions aren&#8217;t (I normally say, &#8220;Excrement happens&#8221; at such times, which can solicit a smile even in times of stress).</p>
<p>Its nice when systems are designed to fail &#8211; I&#8217;ve done this typically by making sure the people running the system know cold the reasons for the system and the range of freedom available within it.  And by not over-designing the system up front &#8211; allow for flexing.</p>
<p>Anyway, just some more thoughts for what they&#8217;re worth &#8211; I agree with you, I think this is an important and fertile area for more thought.</p>
<p>Have fun! &#8211; Bob</p>
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		<title>By: Fi</title>
		<link>http://www.fluentself.com/blog/stuff/the-hole-in-the-system/comment-page-1/#comment-3446</link>
		<dc:creator>Fi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fluentself.com/?p=2523#comment-3446</guid>
		<description>Great post, Havi.  It really hits the spot with me right now, especially about the knowing but not doing - for whatever reason that seems important at the time.  Yep. Been there, done that, paid the price.

(Can I do it again, can I, huh huh?  FIRST!)

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Fis last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aurora-textile-studio.com/admin/116-technical-tinkering-in-progress&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Technical tinkering in progress!&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Havi.  It really hits the spot with me right now, especially about the knowing but not doing &#8211; for whatever reason that seems important at the time.  Yep. Been there, done that, paid the price.</p>
<p>(Can I do it again, can I, huh huh?  FIRST!)</p>
<p><abbr><em>Fis last blog post..<a href="http://www.aurora-textile-studio.com/admin/116-technical-tinkering-in-progress" rel="nofollow">Technical tinkering in progress!</a></em></abbr></p>
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