Stuff we talk about around here:Why DO I charge so much? Part One.
So my first mate on the mad pirate crew has asked me to write a post about why my prices are what they are.
And I know it sucks for her because I’m on email sabbatical and she answers all my email … and she has to figure out how to respond.
Obviously the ones who are all “get the **** off the internet!” are pretty easy to ignore.
It’s more the ones who are hurting, who genuinely want to know why they can’t be part of Fluent Self-ey stuff. There’s a lot of sadness, a lot of resentment, a lot of confusion.
So let me give you an answer for why I charge “so much”. Or at all.
Actually, let me give you a bunch of answers. In no particular order. But in two different posts.
Today I’ll talk about why I have stuff that you can buy that actually, like, costs money.
And then, because I totally ran out of room, next time (or in a couple days) I’ll talk about why so much.
“But all information should be free! It’s icky that you charge for things that you know.”
Oh, sweetie. It sounds like you’re feeling really frustrated because you need to know that you’ll be taken care of. You know what? I also wish more information were free.
Here are some thoughts …
Answer #1: Huh. Interesting.
So I don’t know if you’ve noticed … I actually give away nine hours of my time for free every single week on this blog.
Writing five to six posts a week and responding to comments? Nine hours.
Mmm, and I also teach four no-cost teleclasses each year (like the Habits Detective call), and I often do freebies for other biggifiers or just random people that I feel like helping.*
* Oh, and there’s a free stuff page.
I give all of this gladly. It’s also all free.
There are thousands of people who have never bought any of my products who use this blog as a combination of therapy, coaching, business advice and a steady always-available source of general self-help-ey stuff.
And that’s awesome. As far as I’m concerned, that’s how it should be.
Answer #2: My information IS free.
A lot of the stuff that I actually charge for has to do with implementation, not with information.
How to use the concepts and principles I teach here, and apply them to the stuff going on in your life.
That’s the stuff I’ve spent the past ten years learning and mastering. It’s the thing I’m best at.
Answer #3: If I didn’t charge for anything, there would be no Fluent Self.
Actually, none of this would be here. None of the free information. Not even a website.
When I had a straight job (and that was only a couple of months because that’s how long it took me to realize that I’d rather go back to tending bar than go slowly mad in an office), I didn’t get a lot of writing done.
In fact, I didn’t get a lot of anything done.
Because every single non-work moment of my day was dedicated to not-falling-apart. Not sinking into the abyss.
I had to be in survival mode. So I wasn’t exactly in the position to be of help to anyone else.
So … if I didn’t have stuff for sale here on the blog, there wouldn’t be a blog. I would have a job-job that made me miserable, and all the cool stuff I know would be relegated to my own process of staying sane.
Or I’d be working in a bar and my time off would go to catching up on sleep.
It would be worse for me, obviously. But it would also be worse for you.
Answer #4: the sleaze-non-sleaze kosher marketing continuum.
When I started my business four years ago, I also thought it was awful that any teacher would have a “store”. My definition of a teacher was someone who gave freely and generously.
Then I looked at my own teachers and saw how hard it was for them to actually help the people they needed to help. Because they were struggling with this idea that taking money for anything was wrong — and also struggling with things like “rent” and “groceries”.
And I realized that — while yes, the whole “add to cart” language really sets off my ick buttons — you can’t devote your life to helping your Right People if you don’t have a way to let that life support you.
It’s the sleaze-non-sleaze-kosher-marketing-continuum — some people are always going to find my stuff gross, I’m always going to find other people’s stuff gross, and that’s just how it is.
Answer #5: socialism, baby.
Well, not really.
But the way the whole Fluent Self pirate ship stays strong and healthy is that some people buy my stuff so that other people don’t have to.
The more people invest in their own working-on-their-stuff process by taking my classes or buying products here, the more I can afford to give other things away for nothing or almost nothing.
Answer #6: the more I earn, the easier it is for me to give.
And not just to give, but to give generously and open-heartedly. Whenever I feel like it.
In fact, I never have to make that awful, depressing calculation of “will I end up feeling resentful if I give someone my time”, because the business pays for me to be a giving person.
And if I want my Shivanaut blog to sponsor a Roller Derby team, I can do it.
Answer #7: There are always going to be things you can’t afford.
When I started my business (and my entire rent for the month was about oh, $85 because I was living in that insane drag king semi-squat in East Berlin), I couldn’t really afford anything.
I’d collect my change to buy an hour at the cheapest Turkish internet cafe, and look at people charging what seemed to me to be unfathomable amounts of money for coaching.
And I wished I could afford their books or their programs, but I couldn’t.
So I dealt with it. It never even occurred to me to send them off an email saying “who do you think you are?” or to make snide remarks about them on Twitter (okay, this was pre-Twitter, but still).
Because I knew … that’s where I was. And I knew that I could choose to stay there. Or I could choose to start working on my stuff and get to the point where maybe, eventually, I could learn to be okay with receiving money for my work too.
And right now, there are still plenty of things I can’t afford. And I deal with it. Because taking responsibility for your own stuff (or trying to) is part of being someone who’s working on this whole “having an intentional relationship with yourself” thing.
Answer #8: providing an example is a really big deal.
People see what I’m doing here — teaching what I know, modeling what it’s like to try and have a conscious and not-excessively-cheesy relationship with yourself — and the coolest thing happens.
It inspires them to go out and do it too.
People start blogs. They open practices. They start teaching what they know. It’s the most beautiful thing in the entire world.
And even when they go deep into the scary where the walls and the monsters are, they remember that it can work.
They remember that my baby blog here pays rent for three people. Real rent, not unheated-hole-in-East-Berlin rent. And that’s without even taking on any advertising or sponsorship.
So if I can work through my own deep, painful “you’re not allowed to receive and you’re not allowed to be visible” stucknesses, and that can inspire other people to start healing theirs?
That’s a big huge freaking blessing, as far as I’m concerned.
So that’s a lot.
I guess my bigger point here is that you really are allowed to feel what you’re feeling.
Whether you’re the person who feels anxious and upset when other people charge for what they do, or whether you’re the person who feels resentful when other people question your right to make money doing what you do.
Feelings are always legitimate. They just are.
And whichever side of that equation you’re on (or wherever you are on the sleaze-non-sleaze-kosher-marketing-continuum), I just hope this is giving you Useful Stuff to work with.
Comment Zen
What I’m not looking for:
- To be judged, psychoanalyzed or have shoes thrown at me
What is welcome:
- Thoughts about my bigger theme of creating a safe space for your Right People while keeping healthy boundaries so you don’t have to take on other people’s stuff.
- Anything you’d want to add to this that might be useful for someone hurting.
My commitment.
I commit to giving time and thought to the things that people say, and to interact with their ideas and with my own stuff in as compassionate and honest a way as I can stand.
Twitter: HiroBoga
Havi, thank you for this lovely, clear-eyed look at how to create a life that supports you, and that supports your Right People too.
You’re right–once you take responsibility for your own life, you can be generous, kind, and a beacon for others who have a vision of doing what they love in a sustainable way.
Your blog, the Kitchen Table, your classes, and all the ways in which you support people in discovering and expanding into their vast potential are gifts of generosity, supported by the clear structures you’ve created for your business.
I’m grateful for everything your presence adds to my life. And also for the reminder that (among other things) we’re here on this earth to learn about the shaping power and beauty of form and structure. They are the banks that give the river of our lives its power and ability to flow.
Love, Hiro
.-= Hiro Boga´s last post … Sunday Poem #4 =-.
Twitter: SecretWormy
What can I say? If it wasn’t for your blog I wouldn’t have been able to look at stuff that came up last night and *really* freaked me out and be able to say, “it’s just stuff. It’s okay – everyone’s entitled to their stuff.” I’d probably be wondering around with my shoulders round my ears trying to change what I was feeling because I was throwing a bunch of shoulds at me.
If it wasn’t for your blog I would probably still be having conversations with my body (cos I had them before I started reading) but I probably wouldn’t be writing about them, or talking non violently to myself.
If it wasn’t for your blog I wouldn’t know about Dance of Shiva.
So there – I love your blog. One day perhaps I’ll have the money to be enrolled on all your stuff. If I need it, or think I need it. But right now, I’m just grateful it’s here and however it gets to be here is good in my eyes.
.-= Wormy´s last post … Little me. =-.
Twitter: williehewes
Havi,
1. *hug*
2. Thank you for all the stuff and time you give away for free.
3. Thank you for helping me and others feel normal and comfortable about paying for things we want and love. I am so, so glad you run a healthy business instead of giving away good, solid content for a year only to quit broken-hearted because nobody ever send you donations and you have to pay the rent. I’ve been seeing that way too much around the net recently and it drives me up the wall.
4. *hug*
Twitter: chalcara
Got similiar nasties with my art. It’s the reason I do not offer comissions anymore. I couldn’t stand the whining of:
1) Art should be free!
2) If you take money for your art, you’re not an artists, but a stupid selling-out hack!
3) How dare you to actually CHARGE for stuff you enjoy? You’re a bad person for charging for stuff you enjoy!
4) It’s just art, it cannot be that hard! It’s not work afterall, just magical pictures popping up stuff!
5) And a special gem from my relatives: Just do it, you draw eitherway, why not stuff *I* want?
Okay, I might have paraphrased the last one, but the others I actually had said to my face.
It hurt!
And it still hurts, even after I stopped trying to sell completly. And I’m really happy you can actually write a coherent blogpost about that kind of stuff, Havi, because each time I’m confronted with that particular issue I’m reduced to an incoherent ball of pain and anger and I want to scream that I deserve to at least TRY to make a living from what I’m born to do, but then I stumble on the common assumption that art’s not real work because it’s creative and not soul-numbing and stuff and thusly worthless and I’m bad for asking for pay.
So heartfelt thanks to actually speaking up about that topic. It’s such a huge issue and so ubiquious in our society and so many people are shamed into doing work for free (not only artists, writers, and self-helpy helpermice, but professional sign-language translators or people working with autists or challenged children) for a few and thus lose out on their chance helping and reaching much more people.
I wonder what’s the basic issue here. Money’s complex and often a way to attribute WORTH to something. So why is there a basic assumption that *all* helpful or inspiring stuff isn’t worth charging for?
.-= Carina´s last post … Surrealistic Gardens (Cautions: Contains Great Photos) =-.
Twitter: Germinational
Thank you for this awesome articulation of all the great and real reasons to charge for your work. So, so sensible that charging is what makes it sustainable, for you and for the people who benefit from your work.
I think there’s a lesson in here for everyone who feels guilty about being paid for something that others might like to have for free (writer-self, I’m looking at you!).
.-= Germinational´s last post … Germinational: @grapestar Honey, it’s nowhere near you. But it’s also a bust, so never mind. The search continues! =-.
This is a fabulously comprehensive explanation and I think it’s kind and generous of you to write it in order to support your first mate.
Also, this bit says it all for me:…”and the coolest thing happens. It inspires them to go out and do it too.”
Thank you so much for that. Really.
.-= Briana´s last post … What if I loath what I’m “qualified” to do? =-.
Like Germinational, I’m hoping folks take the last point to heart–to take you as an example and move past the weird squicky feelings.
To me it’s a lot like setting boundaries. When we finally get around to setting them, there are plenty of people who feel very uncomfortable and angry about it. And that’s fine. But we still set the boundary.
I do really love the model of giving away plenty for free, so the broke & DIY-minded can use it and flourish, then providing paid extras for people who need & want some more help.
.-= Sonia Simone´s last post … Are You Sure Your Content MarketingStrategy Is a Good Fit? =-.
Twitter: clr
I do not – especially in this economy – mean to deride anyone who is in very real financial trouble. I know those people are out there right now.
Sometimes “why are you so expensive” really means “i don’t think enough of myself to choose to spend my resources on things that will help me”.
It can be a very scary thing to say, “Self, I am going to spend $108 on an ebook to help me get unstuck.” Self is going to say “What do you think you’re doing?! Getting unstuck?? Go buy some ice cream with that money instead, right now! Go out to lunch. Go buy a new purse.”
So you do that and then you sadly look at the ebook and say, “Oh, well, I can’t afford this ebook, I wish it didn’t cost so much.” And if you get really angry about it, then you will send nasty emails to someone you don’t even know.
It can also be a manifestation of “I hate that I am still working in a crappy job and can’t figure out how to get people to pay me for my thing but this person can and I am angry that she can and i can’t so I will send her an angry note about it instead of spending that time putting together a blogspot site about what my thing is and why you should pay me.”
The other thing is, you DO give stuff away. You give enough stuff away for people to play with it and see if it works for them. Which is how I ended up buying the book. and how it ended up helping me get so unstuck I was able to restart my novel and write over 30k words and work out major plot conflicts in two weeks. I don’t mean to give you a free commercial but the whole process of *letting myself buy it* was interesting.
But buying the book was scary. Because buying it said so many things, spending money on it said so many things, resistance is a big fuzzy angry monster having a tantrum right in the middle of your living room.
Or as one of my favorite books – The War of Art – says, “Resistance is always lying, and always full of shit.”
Twitter: communicatrix
I’m with Sonia: I appreciate the socialist angle (although I’m guessing it’ll bring on a new flavor of haters. Ah, well, should make for some interesting reading.)
Here’s a question: since everyone (barring sociopaths) grapples with some kind of beastie, what keeps the Yellow Highlighter Tribe up at night? Seriously–wouldn’t it be interesting to map a graph of woes across a couple of axes? Sensitive to hard-ass on one, and…well, what on the other?
Twitter: deromilly
@Caryn – So with you! You should SEE the acrobatics I went through to actually push the “buy” button on Havi’s site! There’s that “you don’t deserve it, you’ll never use it anyway… even if you do it won’t work because you won’t use it properly, and you’re spending money that should go to bills” (never mind that it would probably go to yarn that I Don’t need for either current knitting OR my “thing”) monster sitting back there telling me to skip it.
@Carina – OH so with you there. The number of times I hear from people some variation of “God gave you a gift of design and therefore all your needlework charts should be free.” I’ve been told that if all I did was design and give them away the Universe would take care of my rent and food and retirement and such as well. Um… not so much. As people – artists or otherwise, WE have to value ourselves. If we don’t, who will?
@Havi – Obviously I’ll pay for your work. I have. I will again (And you know, after that first book it’s gotten easier to show to myself that it really IS a step forward, and that sometimes you really do have to give money and effort to someone else to get where you want to go.) Of course, maybe it was the fact that the Destuckification Station works, and I’m less Stuckified now!
.-= G. Romilly´s last post … To build a plus size bedlah part 3 =-.
Twitter: havi
@Communicatrix – ha! And I’m pretty sure the Yellow Highlighter Tribe is up at night thinking that everyone else thinks they’re big phonies. At least I hope they are.
Oh, god, I’m a horrible person.
@Sonia – I adore you for so many reasons, “squicky” being one of them.
@Caryn – wow! That was super interesting to read about some of your process (and the unexpected results). Neat!
@Carina – oh, sweetie. I am so, so, so sorry that you have had *any* of these things said to you. YUCK! That is way more hard than anyone should have to put up with.
And I will admit that I really did spend a lot of years crying in bed (and still do) when someone says something that sets off my hurt.
And art heals the world. If anything, it’s the most valuable thing there is. Wishing you more of your Right People — and good luck with keeping the ones who don’t get it as far away as possible.
@Willie – HUG!
I’ve got a little home sitting on my igoogle page. It’s your blog. And it’s free. I’m happy!
I just felt a whole-body sigh of relief as I read this post.
I have happily paid for your products. And I also think that the “Recoding Your Mind” free audio is so good it’s worth paying for, and when I first heard it, I thought “Man, if she’s giving away something this good, imagine how awesome her paid stuff must be,” and I was totally right.
My mental tangent from this post is the idea (drummed into me and many others from a tender age) that in order to Earn Money, we must do Hard Work (which often equates directly to Suffering, Paying Your Dues, Jumping Through Hoops, and their ilk).
People who believe this tend to invoke it in reverse: If it isn’t Hard Work that causes you Suffering, you don’t really have the right to Earn Money for it.
Which is why I’m still struggling with the idea that it is OK to get paid for something that comes naturally to me, that I enjoy, and that energizes rather than depletes me.
And sometimes we get a double whammy — these same Work Ethic Believers think that being creative is automatically easy (like the horrible things @carina and many others have heard about “it’s not hard, it’s just art,” grrr!).
And now I’ll take my Excessive Capitalization for Emphasis and give myself a moment to breathe. Thanks all for a wonderful conversation!
.-= Wendy Cholbi´s last post … How to upgrade anything, part 6 of 6 (Heart-Centered Technology Tip) =-.
I’m glad you are talking about this. Even with my sideline business, I still feel guilty taking money for photos sometimes, especially if I know the person finds it hard to afford me. But at the same time, I need to recoup my expenses… and there is always the question, if I don’t think my work is worth paying for, how can I expect anyone else to?
.-= Lisa´s last post … =-.
Nice post, I agree with it all. I like your emphasis on needing to make sure that the life where you can help others is also the life that will support you.
You know, it reminds me of Leo B (Zen Habits)’s super emphasis on giving away his content free, no copyright, etc., etc., and he gets a lot of attention and love for that – but it’s all a question of emphasis and recognition. You do that, too (free content) and he also sells books (which are copyrighted and help support him).
.-= MoneyEnergy´s last post … Are You Ready For the September Sell-Offs In the Stock Market? =-.
Personally, I don’t think you should have to justify your prices to anyone. You have a business. You decided what to charge. It’s obviously worth it to some, or there would be no business. If someone can’t afford something, that doesn’t reflect on the person charging, nor on what the product may or may not be worth. It is simply that persons decision/opinion that they can not or do not want to , afford that at that moment in time. It is a personal, financial decision.
You, like any other person who owns their own business, deserves a paycheck. Especially those of us in the creative field, get a lot of questioning about whether something is worth it, or why it costs what it does. It’s okay to question whether something is personally worth it or not to you, but not to attack the creator for their decision of what to charge, is ridiculous. Again, as a business owner, we have to decide what the cost is for what we create. At a low enough price, it’s not worth to even think about selling it, let alone running a viable business. Businesses are just that – a money making entity that allow us to feed our children, or provide advice, or to do whatever we need to with it. It is how we survive, just like anyone else going to work. If it is too expensive for someone, that’s okay, some will find value in it and some won;t (it’s not like you have a monopoly on a survival staple like clean water). You already spend a lot of your time without compensation, such as in your blog and on twitter, and those of us who cannot at this time afford your personal attention, love gaining wisdom from those – and at least by some of us, it is HIGHLY appreciated! Don’t waste your time defending your wisdom, and the right to charge for it, to anyone. You have a right to earn money with your experience just like anyone else.
.-= Daniela´s last post … Floral Fridays: The Scented bouquet =-.
I’m not quite Zen enough not to say, ‘If it’s not worth paying money for why do you want it so bad?’
.-= Ollie Hicks´s last post … Everybody loves dolphins =-.
Twitter: NathLussier
Not only is this useful for us to understand how other people can charge money for their work, but like you said… it’s all about giving us an example of someone else respecting their need for income so they can help more people.
Personally Havi, you have helped me so much to overcome my own stucknesses over charging money and putting myself out there. I’ve taken some of your courses and paid you monies, and I’m really grateful – because when you pay money, you pay attention. :)
.-= Nathalie Lussier´s last post … International Green Smoothie Day =-.
funny, because if “information” were in fact FREE, there would be no books to be bought… and there would be no college to pay for.
.-= rachel whetzel´s last post … Sooooo =-.
Can I just say Amen, Sistah, Amen. Seriously. I needed to read this TODAY of all days. Just yesterday I finally made the decision to charge for what I have been giving away for free for almost 2.5 years. I went through all of what you stated in your post today (and some of the comments on this post could have been written by ME) – all the feelings, all the rationalizations, all the everythings … so thank you so much for putting into words what obviously so much of us go through.
Can you I just add that you charge what you charge because you are worth it. Don’t ever forget that.
.-= Biz´s last post … Some People Dream About Success… =-.
Twitter: christinebougie
I love the fact that there is sooooo much free stuff on this site. Anyone who wanted to get free stuff could spend hours on this site and get so much value…for free!
about paying for people’s awesome work:
1) one of the benefits of paying for something is that you tend take it more seriously. I do, anyway. When I pay $100 for something that I’m expecting to learn from, I put a lot more energy into learning and applying it than I would if it were totally free.
2) when I really like someone’s work/art/music etc, I want to give them money. Sometimes I buy my friends music online even if they’ve given me their CD in person. I want them to have money to keep making more stuff!
Anyway, this site is extremely generous. Thanks for putting in the hours.
.-= Christine´s last post … Glow House #3 =-.
Twitter: amysnotdeadyet
As I read through the post, I nodded and agreed — while I’ve wished I could afford some of your things, I always acknowledged that the prices were there for a reason.
But then as I read through the comments, interestingly, That Voice In My Head began to marshal arguments about why my art will be worth money when the store opens, defensive in that way it gets when it’s not totally sure of what it’s saying at all.
And then I took a deep breath, and thought — you know, if I ever have to convince someone to value my art, then they are SO not my Just Right People.
And THAT is something you gave me, for free, from reading here. So thank you.
.-= Amy Crook´s last post … Meeting Myself Halfway =-.
I hope this is on topic…just wanted to say that I went to Willie Hewes’ site the other day, after reading a comment here that resonated. And the first thing I thought, after seeing her work and her prices was, “She’s not charging enough!” Everyone deserves to get paid, and paid well, for their good work.
.-= Wendy´s last post … Introducing…Emma! =-.
Nicely done, Havi. I am still a little flabbergasted that anyone would think it okay to question why someone charges for their livelihood.
.-= Emma´s last post … Notes on Swimming =-.
You know, there’s also the different ways of looking at money all by itself. If your mindset is one of limitations, of not enough (and of course this applies to more than money) then your view point about people charging will be very defensive. But if you can look at money as something that flows, like a river, then giving some away for something of value is just part of that flow – the water keeps flowing, there’s enough for everyone as long as it keeps moving. Build a dam and the water stops.
I know that’s all woo woo hippy dippy, but I also think its true. I’ve bought Havi’s products (YAY Shiva Nata)and by sending some money her way, I get my thought patterns moving, which frees me to be more creative, which gives me ways to move more things that are important to me, and the money I need to manifest them, through my life.
The only difference between a doctor and not-a-doctor is specialist knowledge.
The only difference between a lawyer and not-a-lawyer is specialist knowledge.
The only difference between an accountant and not-an-accountant is specialist knowledge.
When did it become wrong to charge for specialist knowledge?
How can I be so thoroughly bemused this conversation even exists?
Anyone who believes an individual has no right to charge for their expertise is guilty of faulty thinking.
I honestly don’t understand why you need to explain the reason for charging people for your services. It is supposed to be self explanatory.
You have a talent plus knowledge you have accumulated along the years. You leverage these talent and knowledge by helping people. This is your source of income, your livelihood. Why is it any different than a lawyer charging for his consultation or a technician charging for his IT services or a plumber charging for unclogging one’s pipes?
It is exactly the same.
You earn your money fairly by giving good advice and helping people.
What’s up with the “I am entitled to get your hard work for free” wave? Will those people be happy if their bosses stopped paying them for their work? I bet they won’t.
Sorry I had to let it go…
GO HAVI!!!
.-= Avital´s last post … Hero Arts: A Place To Visit. A Company To Love =-.
I’m actually writing a book touching on a lot of what you mention in here. Way to say these things when it’s not the cool thing to do.
.-= William Aicher´s last post … The Genocide of the Creative Class (A Work-in-Progress) =-.
Twitter: getsorted
This answer is perfect– and perfectly Havi, too. :-)
.-= Catherine Cantieri, Sorted´s last post … Greening your job search =-.
Twitter: emilyroots
I simply cannot imagine someone actually having the nerve to ask such a question. If they think it’s too much, fine, don’t buy it. I’ve looked at the kits, etc., thought, yes, that price makes sense to me, now how can I adjust my budget to fit it in? If I really want it, OK it might take me a month to make sure I can really afford it, and in the meantime, YAY! there’s all kinds of free stuff for me here to tide me over to that point.
Ultimately, we (should) look for the ways to spend our money on the things that matter to us. For me, that means not paying for cable and fast food, and using that kind of money for extra “self-helpey” things and yoga class!
Time and money…they’re kinda similar, right? You have a “budget” for each and you can piddle it away on silly stuff you’ll forget by, oh, tomorrow afternoon, or you can use it on the things that matter to you.
Hooray for Havi for putting down in writing what so many artists, writers and other coaches, teachers, and so on and on, must have to find a way to articulate every day!
Twitter: carriemoore
I’m with all the rest of you that have gained SO much from all that is offered here for free. I remember when I first arrived and realized that this is stuff I’ve been searching for and needing for years. I was frustrated and disheartened that there was no way I could spare any money for the things available to buy. I was bitter and skeptical of it all for a few days, but then I decided I would dig in to this site, invest myself in all the free stuff and PARTICIPATE. It made all the difference in the world…
being engaged has been the key. My life has already changed and I am making huge progress destuckifying things! :)
Havi, I think it makes perfect sense that you do things the way you do. I also want to thank you for explaining it so clearly and for showing us what it looks like to have your thing support you in doing more of your thing! It really hit home with me that one of my biggest chunks of stuck around my artwork is that I have never been able to give it value as something I am here to do and deserve to do, much less make a living doing it. Also, that I will never be productive with my thing until I am out of survival mode in this crappy job. Something to Shiva around with I think…. see what shakes out.
*HUG* and THANK YOU!
Twitter: claireofRA
Interesting. As much as I have trouble thinking my art/writing is worth charging for, it never occurred to me that you shouldn’t charge for yours. I think it’s awesome that this blog supports you & others, inspiring too.
One of the things I like most about your blog is that I get to see an example of someone regularly using NVC. I’m still processing it, but it’s helpful to see it in action outside of the book. So, thanks for that.
.-= claire´s last post … In the dark of night =-.
Twitter: creativevoyage
This is great – I’m frustrated by a) discounting my own skills and b) others discounting my own skills. Imagine being asked to make a film which would take 3 months out of my life for two people to do for NO PAY AT ALL !
Welcome to my life… :)
I’m now working with a coach to change some of this and yes paying for it is worth it.
.-= m´s last post … Bird Words =-.
I find it fascinating that people think you and any other artist, teacher, doctor, attorney should give away their work or charge anything other than what the market will bear.
It’s not out of line for someone to say, “I’d like to buy your work but I find it too expensive.” That could be valuable feedback. If no one ever bought Havi’s materials, then she would no doubt conclude that her prices needed adjustment.
But demanding Havi give away her output is outrageous. If she’s selling an amount she deems sufficient for her needs, more power to her. Bitch on your time, I say.
We are mixed up about economics, it seems. It is most certainly not socialism to use one’s earnings however one should see fit (socialism applies to group/government/state behavior).
Havi’s giving of her time and intellectual property is no different from Bill Gates giving money to combat malaria. It is a charitable act, only in this instance giving of own’s knowledge and skill.
I, for one, appreciate Havi’s generosity just as much as I appreciate any other philanthropist.
Ignore the ungrateful. Thank you, Havi!
Twitter: jenipertree
I love Havi’s site. I have gotten so much out of the free part that I intend to buy something soon. I am looking forward to her doing another North Carolina Workshop and mayben someday joining the Kitchen Table – for several decades I have yearned for some such similar thing.
The truth is when I do a rough calculation of what Havi is offering and what she charges – I’m not sure it is nearly enough.
Some people will never be happy at any price but that is entirely THEIR thing.
Twitter: sherronann
People always want to buy things at bargain-basement prices. Isn’t that why stores like WalMart and Sam Moon exist? Even for services, people want rock-bottom prices. I pay what most people consider a ridiculous amount of money for a haircut. Here’s why. I walk in the door and Lien asks me what I want to do with my hair. I say, “Oh, whatever you want.” She asks if I want it long or short and then she gives me a fabulous haircut. Every. Single. Time! I walked in once with a magazine and showed her a picture of a cut I wanted, to which she replied, “Your hair won’t do that, but how about this?” I’ve gotten hair cuts from other stylists who should’ve told me my hair wouldn’t do that! It’s an intangible quality that cannot be measured, so people don’t get it.
I think the same can be said of artists, coaches, or anybody else who brings an intangible quality to the table. And Havi, you certainly do! Some people are just never going to get it.
I have to say that, as a newbie here, I was particularly struck by how kind an undefensive your blog was today. How refreshing! Lots of people could take a lesson, myself included!
Well done, Havi. :)
You’re giving so much away – your time, attention, energy, skills, the Awesome Stuff you know – and it’s only right that some of that should come back to you as money, which is just a condensed form of the buyer’s time, attention, energy, and skills. It’s just reciprocity. Freely give, freely receive.
I wonder how many of the “You have no right to charge!” people are actually out there putting out a tremendous volume of high-quality content that’s immensely moving, supportive, and helpful for tons of people. I bet not many.
Super huge *hugs*
.-= Charlotte´s last post … “Nonspecific Issues” and Helplessness as the Root of Self-Doubt =-.
Twitter: jovanevery
That cultural thing about work should be horrible is just SOOO powerful. And I think when you do work you love and get paid for it (whether employed or self-employed) it makes people that are putting up with work they hate because “that’s the way it is” really really angry. And it is so much easier to tell you that you aren’t allowed to be paid for your “gifts” or for doing work that you love than it is for them to look at their own position and figure out what they need to do to make their lives less miserable.
I’m glad you are addressing this here. You do amazing work. And you deserve to be able to pay the rent.
I feel so sorry for the people who are so miserable they can’t even see that as a possibility.
.-= JoVE´s last post … SSHRC grant review: early bird ends August 15 =-.
Via @leahcreates on twitter, I stumbled upon this post.
I would like to add that when you are a 1-person-business, trade of services can be often used.
For example:
I build websites. I want a back massage. I will build a small brochure site for 6 massages.
There is no money exchanging, but both business owners are happy :) If money is an issue, there are still ways to “buy” what you want.
There is actually a non-profit in my area that keeps track of service-hours. You spend 2 hours weeding someone’s garden. You get paid with a 2-hour service voucher. You then spend it at any other participating person/organization – like 2 hours of someone refinishing your hardwood floors.
So, when you see people having difficulty buying services, offer that they do a trade! It is win-win.
Twitter: elizabethhalt
@claire: I have that same thought. When people asked if they could buy my photos, I would practically force them to take them for free, but it would never occur to me that someone else should give their photos or art away. I love to support others’ work. Odd that.
Great post, glad the topic is being discussed. It offers a good example to others of how to make a living from doing what you love and are good at – which is, I suspect, what just about everyone really wants. Besides, I discovered your blog the other day and have gotten a great deal of value just from reading through some of the posts and comments.
Now, I am off to brainstorm ways on how to find the money to hire you as a coach. I am thinking of selling ad space on my dog. Think anyone’d go for it? ;)
.-= elizabeth´s last post … no. 15 =-.
This has brought up so much for me.
I am thankful for your blog Havi, it has stared me on the road to freedom and beginning my own blog thanks to some free support from you and others here.
You should not need to explain yourself to anyone. Continue to do what you love and expect to be paid for it.
I have plans to happily pay your rates in the very near future.
Thank you for all you do.
Oooh Havi,
Thank you!!!
‘nuf said…
Twitter: happyfuzzyyarn
Havi, thank you so much for all the information you’ve given away for free. It has helped me so much, and my own hardly blogging anymore because it takes too much time makes me appreciate even more how much time and energy you’re putting into this.
I can’t really afford to buy any of your stuff right now, but only because I can’t afford to buy anyone’s stuff right now. That’s not because you’re charging too much. You’re not. It’s because I’m just kind of broke right now, having spent all of my money on supplies and equipment for my businesses (hey, I can raid the pantry till the end of the month. The choice was art supplies or food, and I made my choice).
There are a lot of things that I can’t afford, but they’re certainly worth the cost. I accept that, as I hope people will accept that the stuff I sell is worth the cost. Being on both sides, I know that some people won’t be able to afford my stuff, but that’s ok. If we lived in some kind of economic system where I could just go out and get food and medical care and housing for free, then yeah, I could give my stuff away for free. As long as my supplies and equipment were free too, of course. In this system? Not so much.
.-= Riin´s last post … Amazing =-.
Thank you for the free stuff and your influence in the world. I recently came across your site for the second time and this time I really have been paying attention. I appreciate your honesty, humor, and of course — the good information you have to offer.
.-= Erin´s last post … Really Digging the Destuckification =-.
I love this blog.
The first time I see it, I write some comm somewhere (maybe not even aproved) like “what a hell… how can be so much talent in a single space. Or do you have an Army of people working for you?”
I’m coming from a bad financial and personal situation, and many hints, tips and wishes here has helped me.
I wish I have the money to hire Selma. Now I don’t, but I will sooner or later.
Maybe then I will don’t have the need. Who knows.
Living outside USA, I don’t get payed in dollars, so the prices is more than x 3.5 for me.
And still I worked my way and I just bought Andrey Lappa’s DVD, and is amazing.
(You were right, Havi. In this tiny DVD I have work for at least 3 or 4 years. Amazing.)
And I will buy sooner or later all the other stuffs I can from here, because they look amazing.
Amazing things ussually are not cheap.
Not in money, time, effort, commitment and the rest.
3 NOTES:
- I’m with Ollie Hicks
- Somehow, Havi, you have found the way to not only “charge so much” but to make us support you for that.
Lady, you have talent.
I’m runnig to make my Shivanatas cycloidals and transquarters. (by the way, I’m buying a huge mirror to work better Dance of Shiva. Is not cheap, but I will save in things that are not priority. Dance of Shiva is.)
- In a difficult time I had not so long ago, you sended me, unexpected and for free (gratis) something that was useful, lovely and makes me fell very good.
Thanks for that, Havi. This got not price (for the rest, VISA).
Have fun,
Alvaro
Havi,
Thanks SO much for your wonderful wisdom and super-amazing way of expressing yourself. You really have a gift for writing out the conversations we all have with ourselves, but are afraid to acknowledge.
I’m one of those who, right now, cannot afford your services and I’m so grateful that you have found a way to help your Right People whether or not they can pay for them. Not only is it inspiring but you also lead by example. Going through the equivalent of your “unheated-hole-in-East-Berlin rent/starting a self-help-ey stuff business” period, it gives me hope to see someone who has figured out a way to make it all work without having to resort to a job-job and the kind of passionless life we all dread.
Your work is priceless!
Hugs,
Melody
.-= Melody´s last post … Parting is such sweet sorrow =-.
I used to work at a used/rare-book store. (Cue jumbled strangers’ voices: “This paperback was 75 cents back in 1977. Why is it $1.75 now?” “This paperback cost $5.99 new. Why is it $3 now?” “This hardcover book was $1.15 in 1947. Why is it worth $300 now?” etc. And, always, there WERE reasons, plenty, why the books cost so much or so little. But people didn’t actually want to hear the reasons.)
Anyway, people also used to say, almost verbatim, and without any irony whatsoever [sorry in advance for capitals -- they were shouting]: “WHY DOES THIS ONE REALLY AWESOME THING COST SO MUCH MORE THAN THIS CRAPPY THING IN BAD SHAPE THAT NOONE WANTS???” I could only shrug and suggest that they listen to what they’d just said.
@Ollie and @Sherron: exactly!!!
Addressed to people who think that Havi is charging too much:
Priceless things I got from the free stuff she gives away:(Which I think anyone else can get as well)
To be always kind to yourself (especially when you feel like crap) and to other people (or at least understanding)
To give yourself permission to feel whatever you feel at the moment
That sometimes, if you need support, the only person who can do that properly is your own damn self
Talking to my own walls, monsters, and the occasional body part (“hey, tummy, how do I keep ya from sticking out?” is a conversation I have every so often. I hope it listens to me THIS time) and being okay with it.
The Blogging Therapy Series (Which pushes my fear away a little further every time I read it)
The not hating on yourself series (which is FANTASTIC)
Being occasionally pointed towards incredibly talented, smart and hilarious people I would have never found otherwise like @secretwormy, @smlacy, @Pace, @Kyeli, @Thecharmquark, @copylicious, @JohnnyTruant, @timbrownson, and tons of others. (On another “free” thing:Twitter and as well as on the occasional comment around here)
Like p_q, I live outside the U.S., so whatever I spend on something in the US is way higher, depending on the exchange rate, and I STILL think havi’s worth every penny. Can’t afford everything, tho, but that can always change. (Please change please!)
One last thing:
A friend of mine saw me buy the Shiva starter kit online last year, and asked me, “Jayjay, why are you spending so much on a Yoga Dvd? You can totally find that somewhere else sooner or later.”
I pointed out havi’s picture to her said, “Dude, look at her avatar. She HAS A DUCK. What else do I need to know?”
(There’s a longer answer there but I’m hungry now, perhaps on part 2? :) )
Hugs to ya all!
- JJ
Twitter: annabarnett
@Carina – ooooooh. So, people think they shouldn’t have to pay you if you are doing something you love. VERY INTERESTING what that implies about why we pay people: that we use money to control others and make them do things that they wouldn’t otherwise do.
Essentially, we use money to enslave each other.
Um, I like Havi’s model better.
@Havi: here’s my experience with paying and not paying for your work:
(a) I am jumping-up-and-down-tooting-a-kazoo grateful that I received your blog and its wealth of immediate magical stuff-magic for free.
(b) Though it’s not like I have oodles of money, I’m not at all convinced that I spend what I have optimally, so I’m willing to experiment (especially since reading the blog has increased my self-confidence).
(c) I am now grateful for the chance to try paying for your work – and increasingly for work from other people in your community – not only because of the amazing results, but also just for the information of *seeing how that’s different* from my former PATTERN of trying to fix my life with library books.
Twitter: virtuallori
Fascinating discussion. Amy’s comment really resonated with me: “And then I took a deep breath, and thought — you know, if I ever have to convince someone to value my art, then they are SO not my Just Right People.” I started doing better – WAY better — at shows and in shops and on Etsy with my jewelry once I started raising my prices to reflect what the work was really worth, accounting for not only my materials by my time and my knowledge and my skill, and stopped chasing every sale and trying to be all things to all people.
And the cushion of not being desperate about money gives me space to experiment and make some mistakes and come up with some really fun new things, which in turn feeds the piggy bank (and the compliment jar). And all of this gives me the luxury of being able to donate money to my favorite causes and participate in microlending and donate items for auctions and spend money on *other people’s art* and the cycle goes on and on. It’s all about the flow, as someone else (sorry, I’ve lost track) said.
Havi, charging what you charge for some things gives you the freedom to be generous with other things and to create this wonderful space and community where we can all come and share and learn and grow. And if some people don’t get that, well, I don’t think you need to justify yourself to them. (((hugs)))
.-= Lori Paximadis´s last post … tidbits: less melty edition =-.
Twitter: PaceSmith
Here’s a neat thing that I only learned recently, about the “Information wants to be free” thing. The full quote is:
“On the one hand information wants to be expensive, because it’s so valuable. The right information in the right place just changes your life. On the other hand, information wants to be free, because the cost of getting it out is getting lower and lower all the time. So you have these two fighting against each other.” – Stewart Brand
.-= Pace´s last post … Book Bonanza Wednesday! Chapter 31: Knowing is half the battle =-.
Twitter: havi
You know, while I totally appreciate that so many of you think I shouldn’t have to justify anything to anyone (it’s really sweet), I have to say that I don’t think this is necessarily about “justifying” — it seems a lot more layered than that. It’s more subtle than that.
And yes, if people are being asshats, then yeah, there really is no call to respond to them in any form. My own sense, though, is that there are all sorts of people who *aren’t* asshats.
They just have a really different way of looking at the world than I do. And if I can find out about how they look at things, without getting triggered, I can do a pretty great service to everyone else who is going to encounter these people if I can give these people a clear explanation of how I look at things.
The way I see it, this is just part of the way we all get to do this healing work with ourselves and each other.
Obviously I can appreciate the righteous indignation that comes up (really, I know it well and it has given me more than my share of crazy) when people question the thing we do or how we do it.
It’s just that I don’t think having an answer for it means that I’m justifying my world. I’m explaining how it works, which isn’t the same thing.
Not to me. I already know how it works. And not to people who aren’t buying stuff from me when for some reason I think they should, because that would be insane. And anyway, they’re not my Right People. The explanation is for the seed-planting.
If an explanation helps one more person feel comfortable with charging for stuff, awesome. If it helps one more person say, oh, right, there are different ways to look at this and maybe my way isn’t the only way … awesome.
The truth is that people do question the way other people do things. Because people vary. And their world views vary. A lot.
This isn’t just in the internet world or the art world or the writing world. Dentists and doctors and lawyers also have to deal with people who say “You charge WHAT?!”
Of course in the online world these questions are probably more common, because a lot of people just have no context. They can’t even begin to understand what it means that my job is a blog. And writing e-books. And teaching courses that happen by phone. You know?
Anyway, if I thought for a minute that I “owed” someone this explanation, I wouldn’t be giving it. I’m giving it because people ask and I have an answer. And I happen to think that the giving-of-the-answer has a lot of power in it.
Someone else might say “I don’t need to talk to these people” and that’s cool too. I personally have WAY more issues with people who say things like “I think your thing is actually worth X” than the ones who just think the world would be a lovely place if we were all happily sharing everything. But that’s my stuff. And that’s part of next week’s theme.
Point: if it’s useful to you to have an explanation to point people to if/when (tfu tfu tfu may it never happen) they have this weird idea that you shouldn’t be charging for stuff, use it in good health. And if you are of the opinion that explaining something so obvious isn’t a good use of your time, then skip it with my blessing.
Twitter: havi
@Lori – I agree! It IS super fascinating, and I am really learning so much reading all the comments.
And I had that same reaction to Amy’s comment: “And then I took a deep breath, and thought — you know, if I ever have to convince someone to value my art, then they are SO not my Just Right People.”
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!
The whole fun of having Right People is that you don’t have to sell them on anything because they already like hanging out in your world. The only thing worth doing is hanging out with people who do appreciate you, and to work on appreciating your own stuff.
Because then you just don’t encounter other people’s goo as much, and when you do it doesn’t drive you (as) crazy.
Anyway, you guys rock, and I’m loving everyone’s neat realizations/understandings about their own Thing, and the process of gently putting it out there for their Right People. And my serious wish is that you won’t even encounter anyone who doesn’t get it.
xo
h
Dear Havi,
Bravo! You just earned yourself another fan. I’m getting ready to launch my business, iPlayBIG and when I have money to spend in someone’s cart, you’ll be the first to get it. Thanks to @MarkHeartofBiz for turning me on to you. I look forward to learning more about you and reading your blog.
Continue to PlayBIG and be an inspiration!
Amy
The funny thing is, not only do the people complaining have to believe they don’t deserve anything, WE also have to buy into that mindset (at least a little), or else it wouldn’t *bother* us.
If we didn’t believe on some level that we didn’t deserve it, it would be like somebody coming up to us on the street and yelling “the moon is made of green cheese, you idiot!” — a bit disturbing, perhaps, but not guilt-inducing.
.-= PJ Eby´s last post … Forgive Us Our Struggle =-.
Twitter: nataliapresent
I am still very gladly surprised as I read your posts and discover loads of useful information – for free. This is premium info, Havi.
Maybe you charge what you charge for other things to make up for all this free stuff, maybe not. Either way, it’s none of my business.
And, you know, when I wanted to buy your Shiva Nata kit I thought, “Damn, USD 78 is a whole lot of $ for me” because I live in country where the currency is worth a lot less. But I knew I would benefit from Shiva Nata. Or I hoped I would (and I am).
SO I SAVED UP AND GOT IT.
I used the money for this instead of going out to eat or buying crap I don’t need and I lived more frugally. And it was totally worth it. And I will do it again, for-definitely-sure. You can borrow money, you can save money, you can have a yard sale, you can probably do stuff to get some extra $ if you REALLY REALLY want to. And I did.
So I did it. And others can too. So they should shut their trap.
How I wish be able to speak in fluent english like Natalia (and the others).
But first things first: I rather have a Fluent Self.
One more.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
Twitter: venderleys
Whoa! You have free stuff beyond the blog? Freakin’ cool!
As a trainer, just want to say you had me at Answer #2.
The What is out there. (insert “X-Files” theme music.) Proper trainers/coaches/mentors provide the How, perhaps the Why, and sometimes the Where and When.
An analogy:
Did you read the user manual that came with some computer program you just purchased? Did you join the online community where people discuss problems and solutions for free?
Or did you pay some computer trainer big bucks to teach you how to bold words or merge cells or add a layer?
Yeah, so did I.
Yay, indeed and YAY again! Well said.
Not so long ago I received an email from someone who started out saying that charging for the ceremonial work I do is out of integrity and that his teacher told him to walk away if this was the case. I wrote him back saying that there has always been an exchange between the ceremonial leader and the participants and in this day and age it’s monetary. He then responded that he could only follow his teacher’s advice but also said that he couldn’t afford it. So I invited him on a donation basis. He was very happy with this and offered to gift me one of his handmade flutes. A week later on the day of the ceremony he didn’t show up…
In another blog I read recently the writer stated that you pay for experience and expertise. I totally resonated with that too.
We (teachers, coaches, ceremonialists, etc.) have spent years, decades, chiseling away at ourselves to learn a skill or achieve a state of being (actually both), in the process spending massive amounts of money on our own conscious evolution, so we can be of better service to others. And then we need to eat, live, cloth ourselves and take care of our families…
So yes, we charge for our time and work and can guarantee people they’re loved, cared for and in good hands, not because they pay us, but because that’s who we’ve become.
.-= Maarten Elout´s last post … European sweat lodge teachings =-.
Happily enjoying the free, waiting for the time to be right to pay for the things that cost money. Sometimes you have to wait for the good things, and sometimes the waiting is what makes sure you’re ready when they arrive.
It’s horrible to feel stuck, and not having enough money makes you feel powerless to boot, but it’s still worth paying for the things that are worth buying (and I’m pretty sure that Havi’s things are worth buying). Your need should never become a loss for someone else, but rather a chance for both to benefit.
Life’s lessons are always free. Having an interpreter to tell you what they mean and how to handle them is a bonus. I’m just glad it’s one that’s available. And, there’s an awful lot for free on the blog…something in every post!
Twitter: lindaeaves
As someone who is launching a virtual assistant business well…this page is spot on! Came to you by way of Nathalie Lussier – who I hit it off with immediately – and I like how you’re sayin what you got to say too! Get out of my head or pay rent please. ^_^
Bookmarking your site to come visit often.
.-= Linda Eaves´s last post … Brown-Eyed girl in a Matching Dress =-.
you know, this reminds me of the the Johnny B Truant post on ittybiz just recently, Stop With This Martyr Shit.
also, seems i am quickly becoming a Havi stalker. any points/suggestions to make my stalking more eficient?
.-= ryan´s last blog ..Day 4 – fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck =-.
Havi, yes! Exactly. You are providing an example.
That is exactly how I experience this “public thriving” that you are up to on this site…especially the $ side.
I really appreciate it!
Sarah G.
“When I had a straight job (and that was only a couple of months because that’s how long it took me to realize that I’d rather go back to tending bar than go slowly mad in an office), I didn’t get a lot of writing done.
In fact, I didn’t get a lot of anything done.
Because every single non-work moment of my day was dedicated to not-falling-apart. Not sinking into the abyss. ”
This! This! Thank you! I’ve been trying to figure out why it is that I can’t seem to get stuff done beyond showing up to work and sleeping and this is the reason. I can work with this!
[...] Why DO I charge so much? Part One. [...]
Twitter: flamenooregon
Wonderful! Comprehensive, Brave, Inspiring. Thank you for all that you do offer for free and for the products you offer for a fee; thank you for the many options. And thank you for addressing this topic in this way.